Top Saudi cleric calls for writers’ deaths:
RIYADH (Reuters) – Saudi Arabia’s most revered cleric said in a rare fatwa this week that two writers should be tried for apostasy for their “heretical articles” and put to death if they do not repent.
Sheikh Abdul-Rahman al-Barrak was responding to recent articles in al-Riyadh newspaper that questioned the Sunni Muslim view in Saudi Arabia that adherents of other faiths should be considered unbelievers.
“Anyone who claims this has refuted Islam and should be tried in order to take it back. If not, he should be killed as an apostate from the religion of Islam,” said the fatwa, or religious opinion, dated March 14 and published on Barrak’s Web site.
“It is disgraceful that articles containing this kind of apostasy should be published in some papers of Saudi Arabia, the land of the two holy shrines,” he said, referring to Muslim holy places in Mecca and Medina.
“The rulers should hold these papers to account … and all those who took part in the publication should know they were involved in the sin of heretical articles.”
Barrak, who is thought to be around 75, is viewed by Islamists as the leading independent authority of Saudi Arabia’s hardline version of Sunni Islam, often termed Wahhabism.
He said the articles suggested Muslims were free to follow other religions.
Of course, knowing the history of the poor souls around the world who do indeed convert to other religions, or no religion at all, and their being hounded and threatened, or actually killed. This isn’t just one man’s opinion, but common theology, and has been taught to the masses so they believe it as well.
Here’s a revealing piece of conversation from the link above between an audience member (who gets it intellectually, but still believes in this filth) and one of the esteemed panel members:
Audience member: Sir, if you become an apostate, your punishment is death. There is a great problem that most of us, 70% of us, are Muslims because they were born to Muslim fathers and mothers. Before a person converts to Islam, he has the liberty to choose, but remember that if you want to convert from Islam, you will be punished by death. So you have the liberty to choose, but on the condition…
Al-Sweidan: That’s not liberty.
Audience member: It has conditions…
Al-Sweidan: What you are saying is: You have the right to become an apostate, but I will kill you.
Audience member: That’s right. I won’t tell him not to.
Al-Sweidan: What can be worse than being killed?
Audience member: That’s why he will not become an apostate.
Both the Sura (Quran) and Hadith are quite clear on the matter. Apostates are to be put to death. These leaders today are not preaching some radical, twisted interpretation. They are following the prophet’s instructions to the letter.
Sura 4:89 But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them”
Sura (9:11-12) – “But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief – Lo! they have no binding oaths – in order that they may desist.” This verse is speaking of infidels (ie. “slay the infidels wherever you find them” 9:5) who obviously become Muslims to escape the sword.
From the Hadith:
Bukhari (52:260) – “…The Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”
Bukhari (83:37) – “Allah’s Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate.”
Bukhari (84:57) – “[In the words of] Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”
Bukhari (89:271) – A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to “the verdict of Allah and his apostle.”
Bukhari (84:58) – “There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, ‘Who is this (man)?’ Abu Muisa said, ‘He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.’ Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, ‘I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.’ Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, ‘Then we discussed the night prayers'”
Bukhari (84:64-65) – “Allah’s Apostle: ‘During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'”
Here’s a sample video of what happens to Apostates under this Wahhabist way of ‘thinking’. I won’t put it on here, only click over if you have the strongest of stomachs. This isn’t Hollywood, isn’t fake, this is these people making their own videos, showing themselves in a (in their minds) wonderful light.
That’s on the back end of your life as a muslim. The front end? Compulsion? Noooooo…..not at all! Robert Spencer has a good article from about a year ago on the matter.
in the lands conquered by Muslims they offered, as Qur’an and Sunnah tell them to offer, only three possibilities to non-Muslims: death, conversion, or the status of humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity known as that of the “dhimmi.”
That third option was open, of course, only if the conquered people happened to be ahl al-kitab, People of the Book, that is Christians or Jews…
Isn’t that a form of “compulsion” in religion? If one is forced to pay a burdensome tax, forbidden from suing Muslims at law, forbidden from repairing or building new houses of worship, forbidden from marrying a Muslim woman without converting to Islam first, forbidden from all kinds of things that add up to a condition that in many cases was nearly unendurable, isn’t that compulsion in religion?
And in any case, the meaning traditionally given to that over-quoted line (a favorite of apologists who assume that Infidel audiences will simply take it at face value) does not mean what it appears to say. It means merely that you cannot compel deep inner belief, but you can certainly compel outward conformity with it (i.e. outwardly showing belief in Islam, whatever one inwardly might feel).
Of course in Islam there is “compulsion in Islam.” It’s all over the place, and not only in the Middle East. When Christian schoolgirls are decapitated in Indonesia, and thousands of churches burned, or Buddhist villagers decapitated all over southern Thailand, or Hindus beaten to death in Bangladesh, or attacked in Pakistan, or driven out by the hundreds of thousands from Kashmir, when if they converted to Islam they would be left alone, surely over time that has its effect. Not everyone can heroically withstand such persecution and threat of murder and actual murder.
Read the whole thing. In fact, if you want page after page after page of examples of compulsion in religion, go take a look at the search page for ‘compulsion in religion’.
The libs are just going to loooove their ‘choice’ the new overlords give them.
Tags: compulsion, islam, Robert Spencer, Saudi arabia
The Mailman's Bag 
March 29, 2008 at 6:48 am |
I posted the following on the Miami Hurricanes blog this morning in reference to the call to prayer being allowed for Islam Awareness Week. They weren’t too crazy about my post.
Geert Wilders is right about Islam. The Qur’an teaches hate and bigotry. It should not be used to instruct children or be used in prisons as a conversion tool.
Islamophobia? Who are the true Islamophobes? Network Solutions and YouTube? Those who try to silence the truth-tellers out of fear? A phobia is an irrational fear. Understanding the true motives of Islam and wanting to stop Islamization is not irrational.
Islam is the antithesis of our Bill of Rights and our Constitution. Muslims will tell you Islam means peace. What is meant by this is that all will be peaceful under Islam – if one accepts Islam. If not, those of other faiths can exist by paying the jizyah. This is what Islam teaches. Paying jizyah (tax) to Allah in order to be allowed to practice a religion other than Islam is not freedom of religion. If Islam spreads and becomes the dominant religion, how long before the right to freedom of religion is abolished to be in line with Qur’anic scripture?
Study the Qur’an and the ahadiths. A rational human being can only come to the conclusion that Islam was developed by a man who, because he thirsted for power, developed an ideology based on his deliberate perversions of Judaism and Christianity in order to create hatred for the followers of those religions. Create the hatred, then create an army to ravage and take control of the lands of the People of the Book (Jews & Christians). Islam is not just a religion. It is an ideology with political, military and religious aspects. It is a total belief system.
The Crusades were, of course, the quest to retake the lands stolen by the first Jihadists – Muhammad and his followers.
Do you realize that the Siege of Vienna took place on September 11, 1683? Why do you think September 11 was the date chosen by 19 Islamists to fly planes into our buildings? It was a message to us that Islam was again on the rise.
Interfaith groups seem a noble cause, but they only promote Islamization, because the attempt on the part of naive non-Muslims is not reciprocated with the same noble intentions on the part of Muslims. This is not to say all Muslims are gifted in the “art” of taqiyya (lying) and use it. In fact, there are many Muslims who do not even know the finer points of their faith and who have become secularized or they are indoctrinated and do not question their faith.
Muslims will tell you that you cannot understand Islam properly if you do not know Arabic. (There is some indication that Arabic was not the original language used) And, of course, if you do not understand Arabic, then you must only study with a Muslim who does. Don’t listen to them who say this. Certainly, one can listen to, read, study both sides, if one is interested in “being fair-minded.” But quite frankly, within the first several days of studying Islam, I was able to to easily see how and why Islam came to be. I was appalled by the so-called prophet of Islam and by the Qur’an, which is, as Wilders called it, fascistic in nature. Muhammad not only lived in the Spin Zone, I am quite sure that he created it. He said Allah said something, but then when that thing conflicted with something Muhammad wanted or did, he simply explained it away with a new saying from Allah to justify his behavior.
Contrast Muhammad with Jesus Christ and there is no comparison. Muhammad was a brutal warrior and Jesus was only peaceful. God bless Pope Benedict for playing the very dangerous game of chess with Muslim leaders. He is a brilliant man and I fear that priests and others who are doing interfaith work do not have the knowledge to engage in it properly. Islam in America is here to win, not to merely live side-by-side with other faiths.
CAIR, an unindicted co-conspirator in an ongoing case regarding contributions to Hamas, claims to be nothing more than an advocacy group for Muslims, but instead, they are engaged in fake lawsuits to promote the Islamization of America. They are here to make sure our children’s text books say nothing bad about Islam. They are here to make sure footbaths are installed in public institutions and to accustom us to call to prayer. They use the excuse that we have church bells, but church bells are used for many reasons. Call to prayer only has one purpose. In various places around the globe, call to prayer goes on forever at 2 a.m. When I hear call to prayer, it reminds me of 9/11. It is a sound that does not belong in this country. It causes distress for too many.
Many former Muslims are warning us about Islam. Listen to them. Listen to Ayaan Hirsi Ali; to Walid Shoebat, a former Palestinian terrorist who converted to Christianity, to Bat Ye’or, to Nonie Darwish, to Wafa Sultan, to Robert Spencer.
If not for those of us who speak of the dangers of Islam, Turkey would not be attempting revision of the ahadiths. That should tell you something – that Islam in its present form is unacceptable.
There are those Muslims in America who are attempting reform or pushing a New Age version of Sufism, but can Islam be reformed? Muslims believe the Qu’ran is the word of God handed to Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel. How does one reform what is supposedly the word of God? Muslims have begun a campaign to disassociate themselves from the Taliban, from violence, from what they call a perversion of Islam, but the Qur’an itself calls for violence. The jihadists follow the true Islam.
As the saying goes, there are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam.
If you are truly open-minded, you will seek out all opinion and treat it fairly. You will not accept the false idea that only Muslims understand Islam.
Watch Islam: What the West Needs to Know
*Ironically, the link I gave in the article for the above is no longer good.
Banned by Google. I found it on YouTube (where it was also banned), but
they haven’t found the Finnish version yet. It’s in English, but has a Finnish
title and Finnish subtitles.
I am hyperlinking only Part 1 because as long as YouTube hasn’t pulled them,
the rest (2-13) can be found in the sidebar scroll at YouTube. These have Finnish
subtitles, but are in English. The originals were pulled by YouTube.
Part 1
Parts 1-13
March 29, 2008 at 6:50 am |
I also posted this on a blog concerned with tolerance:
“One can’t describe a religion that is over a millenium old in 15 mins, nor can one ascribe to it all of the things Wilder claims.”
Sure you can. Let’s see, a guy named Muhammad who’d been introduced to Judaism and Christianity in his travels, decided he wanted power and land. So he used what he’d learned about the other religions to create Islam. In this new ideology, he created hate for Judaism and Christianity in order to have a reason for his army to fight them. He made himself more powerful than Jesus and told everyone he, himself, was the last
prophet. He sent his armies out to take all the lands from the Christians and Jews. And the legacy goes on.